Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-24098614-20160522195522/@comment-36009152-20190527172654

Otaku4469 wrote: I hope he does fall in love with a girl instead of Mikael because I simply despise Yaoi pairings I am not into Yaoi stuff. 174.230.7.191 wrote: OP isnt quickly called out on blatant homophobia. Whatever. Disappointed but not surprised. Always good to present changes in perspective, and helping others see things for what they really are. Let us begin, the added issues as of now are (1) should the post continue since people were happily taking part in it. (2) should the post continue and not be closed because it is from May 22, 2016, some time in the past.

This cannot be a case of ‘whatever’, for number 1) 174.230.7.191 you are correct the post should have been closed and the account confronted on their message wall with an explanation of their wrongdoing (reformation is better than punishment). With no improvement the account would then be sent to Fandom staff for articulating quite a strong hatred “simply despise Yaoi pairings” towards couples that cannot be dismissed as grandiose speech (which still would not make it right).

First, the people who took part cannot be faulted, they remained kind and likely did not want to rock the boat - though it is one that should be tipped right over! and stuck to nice messages to dilute the original one, good for them. But talking normally and pretending that the OP is fine when it never was is something being addressed here and now. The problem lies solely with the original post, that is the one that tried, and succeeded in normalising prejudice towards same sex couples.

It is the root of a larger problem, the hatred is deeply entrenched, see these posts from the same account:

Homophobic post, 1 May 22, 2016: This one we are commenting on, a whole post just to state how much Yaoi pairings are despised, with additional outbursts further on.

[https://owarinoseraph.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:14284 Homophobic post 2. May 22, 2016:] After 5 whole minutes they were unable to wait anymore as they posted a message to enquire about Shinoa and Yu but the true reason was to, again be homophobic. Opposite sex relationships like Shinoa and Yu are perfectly fine in their books, but not same sex ones because of a prejudice held towards same sex couples. They consider it a “disturbing trend towards the Yaoi side”. The “trend towards the Yaoi side” is not disturbing, prejudice towards people is what is truly disturbing.

To explain the problem at this point, with hypothetical examples to help everyone understand what is going on here. It would be fine, if a bit rude, for the original poster to write something like “I don’t like Yu and Shinoa as a couple” or “I don’t like Yu and Mika as a couple” simply because it’s felt they don’t make a nice couple, no problem, everyone has their favourite ships. The serious issue is not the specific person in a ship, but that the relationship is not liked because of the sex of the couple: “I don’t like Yu and Mika together because they don’t make daisy bracelets for one another” is fine. Again different reasons/behaviours to like one relationship more than another. On the other hand “I don’t like Yu and Mika together because they are both guys and I find that disgusting” is definitely not fine. There is nothing wrong with two people of the same sex liking one another, the true problem is the hatred towards people of the same sex and it's high time this was identified.

For Homophobic post 2, the following hypothetical statements place the problem into context for us to correctly view:

Actual comment posted:

Otaku4469 wrote: I want to know this since I am seeing a disturbing trend towards the Yaoi side in his relationship with Mikael I don't like Yaoi pairings at all. A homophobic statement, hatefully disrespectful to same sex couples, their friends and family, decent people, and makes the original poster look hateful and ignorant. So it is also disrespectful to them, sure they can be so much more than that.

Hypothetical comment to demonstrate an equally bad statement as the actual comment: ''I want to know this since I am seeing a disturbing trend towards the opposite sex side in his relationship with Shinoa. I don’t like opposite sex pairings at all.''

A heterophobic statement, hatefully disrespectful to opposite sex couples, their friends and family, decent people, and makes the original poster look hateful and ignorant. So it is also disrespectful to them, sure they can be so much more than that.

Hypothetical comment to demonstrate an equally bad statement as the actual comment: ''I want to know this since I am seeing a disturbing trend towards the interracial side in his relationship with Shinoa (if characters had different skin colours). I don’t like interracial couples at all.''

A racist statement, hatefully disrespectful to couples with different skin colours, their friends and family, decent people, and makes the original poster look hateful and ignorant. So it is also disrespectful to them, sure they can be so much more than that.

Homophobic post 3, January 2, 2018: The additional issue is this hatred towards same sex pairings has not abated with time. It is not a one off blunder, it has festered within that account and is always ready to rear its face once more without the courtesy to alert people beforehand. In fact with post 3, the hate appears to have mutated extending from despising, to now being sickened.

Also we cannot outrule the possibility that someone is physically forcing them to write some variation of 'I do not like Yaoi pairings'. In any case we really should help them out, there is quite the impressive collection of varied catchphrases: Don't know what is but from the instances the OP account wrote above, something tells me that they do not like Yaoi pairings. Call it a hunch.
 * "I am not into Yaoi stuff"
 * "I don't like Yaoi pairings"
 * "I don't like Yaoi pairings at all"
 * "I am not into Yaoi pairings"

Or maybe it might just be how they say 'hello' to others.

As before, that question in post 3 is nothing about the series, the true purpose is just another opportunity to state how sickened they are, and again the need is felt to state that they are not into Yaoi pairings, for whatever reason we can never truly know, it's one of the great mysteries of life. When they returned to the Seraph of the End Wiki there was not a message along the lines of “I said something terrible about Yaoi pairings and it made me look bad, that is not who I am I am better than that” or something, it was the exact same tripe as before after around two YEARS.

Stands to reason they still hold those noxious self-ruining views to this day, and behold the devastating effect it has had on them, behold how prejudice damages the host subject.

With everything, and in the bigger image, can we see first hand how prejudice does not make sense and how based on the facts it is the symptom of some kind of crazy undiagnosed sickness? Having the question answered was not enough as the same one has been asked again. It was to invite other “yes I hate Yaoi pairings, let’s take part in a closed echo chamber of hate” likely.

Though the message concerns a hatred for same sex couples, even if they cared for some nutjob ramblings, forget the homosexual people, feel sorry for the homophobic people like the OP. For them and those like that to be so deeply unhappy that they cannot enjoy a series fully at the mere hint there could be same sex relationships. To have a compulsion to write, repeatedly, over years, reminders that they do not like Yaoi pairings, we must open our hearts and help these poor basket cases. They are suffering and in pain... and can I just say, what the actual heck is wrong with you people? How can you watch your fellow human behave like the original poster?! Don't just stand there you sickos, HELP THEM, from themselves.

Though we do need to assert something good, we can only decide to not be sickened by same sex, opposite couples, couples with different skin colours, rather we should be sickened by prejudice towards people who love and care for one another, but also make it nicer. Same sex couples are not going to go away, not in real life, not in anime with the knock on effect that we become like the OP. No, prejudiced behaviour is what is going to go away so people can love one another and we become better people who are not horrible goblin creatures 'sickened' by love.

Further problems are that the tone of the OP messages are incredibly bitter, and frankly it is not something that we can just look away from whilst they do their dirty business in the open. This is an amazing Fandom with awesome people, not some not the fun type of dive where the angry and vinegary come to belt out socially awkward rants against amazing people. Especially Mika and Yu, I am definitely taking Mika and Yu’s side over some hysterical hate drenched social reject behaviour account (love you really) what would anyone else choose?

174.230.7.191 Well done for giving us the self-awareness that the OP’s message is not a topic to take part in and continue as if that were acceptable behaviour to normalise. For point (2) at the start, further commendations for pointing out that the length of time does not exonerate one from their wrongdoings. The OP was not right at the time, not now, it has not been quelled and could emerge at any moment. I do not want to alarm people but the OP could be behind you right now as we speak, ready to break out into an unsolicited mental collapse at the thought of two people of the same sex being romantically involved.

Such behaviour is also not going to be buried or forgotten, rather dug up and made better so the debacle does not happen again. A wound must be drained of poison underneath before it can heal properly. The OP's self wounding views must be glanced at, do not pretend it is all nice and clean when it isn't - the sludge must be removed for they themselves to recover and grow.

We can and should laugh at OP's behaviour for the same reason we can laugh if they were to throw their own excrement to try and communicate with other humans, but also challenge them to be better. There are no bad people, only bad behaviours, ones that can be made better for their sakes and for the people they are trying (and failing) to spread hatred about.

Let's keep this thread open, it can be kept for others to share their views no matter what they are. People must say and do whatever they want, show the values one stands for. Then of course in this case there are no prejudiced people only opportunities. OP thinks Yaoi pairings are disgusting? They are incorrect and will be told so, we are not adapting to their harmful views, they can take up our nicer views. As a bonus they can be given a chance to remedy their sleazy behaviour, or they can keep voicing it and be banned since homophobia is against Fandoms terms of use for the same reason racism is. Such accounts should be disciplined further for unhealthily fixating on this certain prejudice – writing it multiple times, waving it around, everyone gets it, the account just cannot cope with same sex pairings, go be sticky somewhere else, and banned there as well. Banned further for being a nuisance that we do not deserve to look at, we deserve only good things.

There will be no hidey holes for prejudice, no sanctuaries, this is a nice light to shine on this if anything to help the OP be better than they were in the past. Mistakes happen but so do corrections both in real life and on the internet.

Having concluded that the matter cannot be swept under the rug to mold and fume up the place, I alone shall contact the OP. Remember there is no such thing as an awful homophobic person, the reality is they are poor unfortunate cases that elicit sympathy and I shall do a good deed by transforming this mess into something nice, if there is a better outcome then share it.

Duly note that we are all good people who say pleasant things and treat others equally. This is to a greater extent if it concerns people loving one another, the more of that the better and why entertain notions to the contrary. If the OP does not address the hateful behaviour they erroneously thought they could get away with, then that is fine. Would also want staff to check their activity across all wikis. If they are appearing out of nowhere every few years to excrete this drivel on this amazing wiki, such conduct is likely polluting others so either way we shall be doing a good deed and righting this wrong at long last once and for all.

ps, write how amazing Seraph of the End is.